An Open Letter to Reza Aslan

Hello Reza,

I have recently heard your outburst at Bill Maher, although you are normally a nice inclusion to the show, and you sometimes have important things to say, I think you have sadly diminished any respect I once had for you by your recent lies on CNN. It seems that after being told a truth you dislike on HBO, and being subjected to other humans who actually have the ability to call bullshit on your claims – you have run to CNN to discuss your point with two people who know as much about Islam as you do about the inner workings of time travel.

When you claim Islam is peaceful, ISIS is not Islamic & people are the problem not religion,two random eye-candy anchors from CNN can do nothing but smile and try to sound interesting, how can their media study diplomas come in useful here? Whereas Bill Maher (or his research team) could actually use evidence – like the Quran, the unchanged & perfect word of your God – to prove you wrong. You gained many fans and book sales by looking rather smart on fox news, but let’s be honest, that’s like being the nicest looking 62 year old virgin in Milwaukee – its value is nil.

Maher stated this:
 if vast numbers of Muslims across the world believe, and they do, that humans deserve to die for merely holding a different idea or drawing a cartoon or writing a book or eloping with the wrong person, not only does the Muslim world have something in common with ISIS; it has too much in common with ISIS.”

If you deny any of this, 1) Wake up and smell the coffee 2) Stop lying  & 3) You best go out there and tell more than 112 million Muslims that they are doing it wrong (that is the conservative number of political radicalised Muslims, the ones who adhere to apostasy threats, family shame and cartoon anger are near the absolute majority.

On CNN you go on to say regarding female genital mutilation:

“I mean, the argument about the female genital mutilation being an Islamic problem is a perfect example of that. It’s not an Islamic problem. It’s an African problem …And that’s actually empirically factually incorrect … It’s a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.”

WOW, hold on, you think Eritea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic. You forgot to mention that, maybe you thought nobody would fact check you, my bad.

Also Ethiopia a Christian country? Of course in the 4th century it adopted Christianity as the state religion – but unless you forgot, it is not the 4th century any more, how embarrassing of a “historian” to forget – Christianity is no longer the state religion, and only has 62% Christians and 34% Muslims which is no doubt more than 50%, but if the best evidence you have is calling 50% & 62% Christian majorities, then you have a big problem. Sorry again, I guess you thought being on CNN you wouldn’t get fact checked.
Let us look at the evidence against you, as the evidence you used yourself was dire and counter-productive to your own means. Is female genital mutilation an Islamic problem or not?

Somalia 98% FGM – 99.8% Muslim & less than 0.1% Christian
Djibouti 93% FGM – 94% Muslim 6% Christian
Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 5.1% Christian
Guinea 96% FGM – 85% Muslim & only 8% Christian
Mali 89% FGM – 90% Muslim only 5% Christian
Sudan 88% FGM – 98% Muslim >2% Christian
Sierra Leone 88% FGM – 71% Muslim 27% Christian

Out of the 29 main countries that conduct female genital mutilation in Africa – only 8 are Christian majority countries, with the remaining 21 all being an Islamic majority, go figure! Why didn’t you mention these statistics? Because they clearly prove you wrong, that’s why.

Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%

But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%

So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!
but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!

Logic fail.

The fact you dared to say “Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.” is disgustingly untrue, tell that statement to the 98% of women in somalia who have no clitoris or labia left you lying toad; it’s so untrue it is almost wickedly offensive, the evidence above shows you are either a liar or as you said on CNN, “stupid”.

I will not question your credentials (like many others have) I will simply remind people that when we listen to you, we are not hearing a moderate non-biased unaffiliated scholar, but a very confused individual that has taken to not only one true religion, but two, and three times at that. Instead of studying the truth of the scientific & historical claims (which would almost certainly lead to non-belief) you have bounced between religions like Katie Price through husbands – this plays out like a man who just cannot get over the fact he will die, so needs to fill the void by being subservient to a none answer.

“where did the universe come from?”

“Let’s make up something that cannot be verified, tested or even proven to exist, and call it that!”

Most people who have life long faith and lose it, go from believing to noticing how wrong they were and how indoctrinating religion really is – not believing in one silly man-made ideology (which you agree is the basis of faith) to another silly man-made ideology. Your life story (born in Iran to a Muslim family, converting to Christianity, converting back to Islam) doesn’t sound like a man trying to find truth, more a man trying to find faith, it doesn’t really matter which one, as long as you don’t have to own up to the reality of entropy.

Time magazine wrote “Aslan came to the conclusion that the claims of the Bible didn’t hold up.” I’m glad you used rationality, now can we sit down and place the same scrutiny on Islam? Because if you can use logic to dismiss Christianity, there is no chance you will fail at doing the same to Islam – they both make massive claims for themselves and they both fail miserably. You go on to say:

As a scientifically minded person, if you asked me is it likely that a man rose from the dead? I would say, no.

I am salivating at this, if you actually believe you can dismiss the validity of Jesus’ miracles using science (as we can) then you have either refused to investigate Mohammed and Allah, or you have done so and completely ignored the scientific findings, so which is it – are you lying or ignorant?

I have the honesty as an ex-Christian to see atrocities in the name of Christianity and accept that they are absolutely tied together – When I see Christian women being killed in Africa for speaking down to a man, or even turning her face from a man – I don’t lie, I don’t make excuses, I don’t run away from the responsibility I have gave myself by having knowledge of the situation. I simply quote the passages from the bible that directly mandate these killings and say “This is why religion has no place in our society, and this is why most Christians gave up on a literal bible many moons ago.” When I remember Hitler’s use of the treatment of Jesus by Jews to justify the final solution, or the African slave trade using the bible as justification, with passages explicitly explaining how one should beat his slave, I don’t pretend those passages don’t exist, I don’t lie about them, I don’t say vapid statements like “Don’t paint all Christians like this minority” or “They are extremists” I am a grown up, I admit the bible does mandate these actions, and use this as evidence as to why I do not follow the Bible. Slave owners, much like ISIS, are not extremists, they are what I like to call ‘literalists’ as they take to a literal translation of the Bible – as all “followers” should do. How can they be marginalised by others who don’t hold to the true word of their holy books? How dare an ex-Christian like me who attended church only for funerals say that a slave owner who recited the passage below was not a Christian?:

You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

This is the word of God – that last sentence almost makes it sound like a Jew had probably written it…

So why do you not have the same ability as I? Are you too biased to be honest to your audience? Why are you not truthful enough to tell people that ISIS are not only Islamic but take their faith more serious than any other so called Muslims? You can still stand by your fellow Muslims yet agree the only way to succeed in this century is to adapt and evolve into a more modern faith – this is why Christianity is most powerful – but to do that you must first own up and then subsequently disown the basic premise your old beliefs.

How can you, with a straight face denounce the work of ISIS yet know full well everything they do is a carbon copy of the will of Mohammed – Did the prophet attempt a peaceful caliphate? Or did he bring war? Does Islam give the freedom of leaving the faith, or does it hold a penalty of death? You know the answer to these questions, you know that ISIS have taken the Quran literally, as you should, if you truly are a Muslim, but you won’t admit it – because the current publicity campaign by Islam of using western PC sensibilities to gain popularity from moderates is working perfectly. Nevermore so in history has Islam been this favourable in the eyes of moderate Christians than in 2014. Quite ingenious of Islam I have to say; imagine if for the 500 years that Christianity spilled blood, murdered Muslims and Jews, burned converts at the stake and tortured apostates, that there had been a large Muslim community saying “Don’t be Christianophobic! Stop painting all Christians with the same brush!”

The mere thought is ridiculous.

You know you are being disingenuous, you know you are lying, your audience of low information voters and fans who line up in agreement, but won’t dare research to see what they are agreeing to don’t know any better, but you do. You have a responsibility to inform them of the truth.

You have said:

I’m a person of faith, and the language that I use to define my faith, the symbols and metaphors that I rely upon to express my faith, are those provided by Islam because they make the most sense to me. The Buddha once said, “If you want to draw water, you don’t dig six 1-ft. wells, you dig one 6-ft. well.” Islam is my 6-ft. well. But I recognize that I am drawing the same water that everyone around me is.

This last sentence is very poignant; I base every decision on scientific scrutiny, not just the ones that suit me like you do, therefore I can’t follow you down the path of believing nonsense. You are a wishy washy Muslim, you probably don’t believe a word of the Quran, but find that it is the faith of your people, and in turn align yourself as such. This is not a problem for me, although I find it sad and useless. What is a problem is you stand as a moderate, barely Muslim by any stretch of the imagination and then dare criticise the men and woman in the middle east who actually give a damn about their faith, the people who live by every word of the Quran and truly follow Islam. How dare such a diluted Muslim born in Iran no less take snipes at real Muslims in Iran who are fighting in a holy war, specifically mandated by them from their God and Holy book (the same holy book you have seemingly studied and chosen to ignore). You’re practically the same as a cultural Jew, who holds to none of the Dogma and believes none of the Holy Book, but just likes to keep some of the traditions because they feel guilt or it reminds them of their childhood. Again, this is your prerogative, but just as they cannot deny an orthodox Jew, you cannot deny a literal Muslim.

So in closing, please stop lying on CNN, because although you have mindless fans who will clap along, you also have informed debaters and fervent non-believers who actually fact check, like me – We, the informed: with our google, our evidence, our love of statistics, our willingness to open a Holy Book and our attitude towards learning as many true things and discarding as many false things as possible, will be on you like a fly on shit. You will be held accountable. Your claims can and will be verified independently and it will affect your reputation as a “scholar”.

Yours fai… truly,

Jordan Smith

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70 Replies to “An Open Letter to Reza Aslan”

  1. – Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 9% Christian
    + Egypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 5.1% Christian

    No need to approve this comment.

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  2. You are right Christianity n Islam have the old Mosaic laws inside. Many of them are really cruel (stoning 4 having sex with a married woman f.ex.). Jesus made a moral improvement: He spoke of a merciful god, that wants the believer to forgive the sinner. The highest duty is to forgive, even the enemy. But the strange thing is: Islam has principally the same merciful god! In every Surah God is named the most merciful and compassionate n so the believer is reminded that grace n mercy are always right (even in war, judging etc)!
    Of course the islamic theologians n extremists have special interpretations, but the normal believers believe in the duty of mercy n grace, like the Christians!

    Like

  3. So…. Got source on your statistics?

    Also “wake up and smell the coffee” isn’t a legitimate argument, as it basically explains nothing.

    I was actually interested in seeing which other country outside of Africa practiced female genital mutilation, but alas you did not list any.

    Setting aside your ridiculous claims.

    Let’s for arguments sake say, you were right, Islam is a religion of war and destruction and every muslim in the world are the same, what exactly would your solution be? Declare war on the entire muslim population of the world? Yeah good luck with that.

    Something you have to realise is that modern radical Islam didn’t take off until western interference in the Middle East, remember how back in the days al Qaeda and their CIA handlers fought together against russian incursion in to Afghanistan? Well CIA ran supply lines for al Qaeda, those were the days right?

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    1. “So…. Got source on your statistics?”

      Yes, they are in abundance inside the article.

      “Also “wake up and smell the coffee” isn’t a legitimate argument, as it basically explains nothing.!”

      Thank you, I honestly never thought anyone would be so silly to take that seriously, I was wrong.

      “I was actually interested in seeing which other country outside of Africa practiced female genital mutilation, but alas you did not list any.”

      As that was not the point of the piece, when I do a piece on global FGM I will email you.

      “Setting aside your ridiculous claims.”

      Let’s find some first!

      “Let’s for arguments sake say, you were right, Islam is a religion of war and destruction and every muslim in the world are the same, what exactly would your solution be? Declare war on the entire muslim population of the world? Yeah good luck with that.”

      And at no point did anyone say anything even similar to those sentences, did you read my piece or someone else’s?

      “Something you have to realise is that modern radical Islam didn’t take off until western interference in the Middle East, remember how back in the days al Qaeda and their CIA handlers fought together against russian incursion in to Afghanistan? Well CIA ran supply lines for al Qaeda, those were the days right?”

      Ah, yes, it is the US’s fault – Killing in the name of Islam begin in 2001, not over 1400 years ago according to those darn history books.

      Like

  4. As an Atheist, I would like to apologize to Reza Aslan is he ever sees this. The people who wrote and agree with this article are the reason atheists have a bad name.

    Like

    1. “As an Atheist, I would like to apologize to Reza Aslan is he ever sees this. The people who wrote and agree with this article are the reason atheists have a bad name.”

      As the author of this piece, jog on. This piece is well sourced, based entirely on evidence, if that gives atheists a bad name so be it.

      Like

  5. You kinda missed the point? All his basic statement was that Muslims are not all the same. Which is the same with their countries, we dont say America and UK are the same countries. Rest of your stuff just long winded arrogance from yourself.

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    1. “You kinda missed the point? All his basic statement was that Muslims are not all the same. Which is the same with their countries, we dont say America and UK are the same countries. Rest of your stuff just long winded arrogance from yourself.”

      I really didn’t; the statement about Muslims not being all the same is not at all in this piece, as I don’t disagree with him, and as it isn’t relevant, why you bring it up confuses me.

      Like

  6. Somalia 98% FGM – 99.8% Muslim & less than 0.1% Christian
    Djibouti 93% FGM – 94% Muslim 6% Christian
    Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 9% Christian
    Guinea 96% FGM – 85% Muslim & only 8% Christian
    Mali 89% FGM – 90% Muslim only 5% Christian
    Sudan 88% FGM – 98% Muslim >2% Christian
    Sierra Leone 88% FGM – 71% Muslim 27% Christian

    I do not think sir that you heard Reza’s argument in the interview. All of the countries you named above are “NORTH AFRICAN”, and that is exactly what Reza was saying. Plus, as a Muslim from the Middle East. Plus, I can tell you that you are 100% WRONG regarding Egypt, having female genital mutilation. I grew up with Egyptians. I know the culture 100%, and they do Not have female genital mutilation. That is just NOT true. I don’t know where are you getting your information from. I cannot speak for the other North African countries you mentioned because I simply don’t know anything about them

    Additionally, let’s look at the real numbers. (All down below are Muslim countries with over 90% Muslim population):

    Saudi Arabia- do Not have female genital mutilation.
    UAE: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Qatar: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Oman: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Jorden: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Oman: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Yemen: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Kuwait: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Iraq: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Iran: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Egypt: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Pakistan: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Turkey: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Malaysia: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Indonesia: do Not have female genital mutilation.
    Afghanistan: Don’t really know, but I don’t think so
    Palestine: do Not have female genital mutilation
    Syria: do Not have female genital mutilation
    Lebanon: do Not have female genital mutilation

    And the list goes on and on.

    In fact, I heard about this only three years ago when I came to the U.S (18 years old- now 21), I didn’t believe it. It was horrible and cruel. But then, I started hearing that it was because of Islam!! I didn’t even believe it. In no part of the Quran does it say anything whatsoever about female genital mutilation. I am 100% sure of everything I said.

    What upsets me most in here, is that you completely are missing Reza’s point, which is not to be a beget.

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    1. “I do not think sir that you heard Reza’s argument in the interview.”
      I know I did.

      “All of the countries you named above are “NORTH AFRICAN”, and that is exactly what Reza was saying. Plus, as a Muslim from the Middle East. Plus, I can tell you that you are 100% WRONG regarding Egypt, having female genital mutilation. I grew up with Egyptians. I know the culture 100%, and they do Not have female genital mutilation. ”

      And this is where I stop replying to your nonsense, as it is a fact that the highest number of FGM cases are in Egypt, over 20 million cases. Your fantastic “I know the culture” “I’m a muslim” “I’m from the middle-east” anecdotes are pretty, but I deal in facts not anecdotes.

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    2. Actually it was your own Minister of Health, Adel Adawy that said that.

      “Egypt’s Minister of Health Adel Adawy announced on Sunday that 92 percent of married Egyptian women have experienced female genital mutilation.”

      I guess you don’t know Egypt like you think you do. It’s people like you that are the problem in this world. Don’t you feel like a dumb ass now?

      http://egyptianstreets.com/2015/05/10/92-of-married-women-in-egypt-have-undergone-female-genital-mutilation/

      Like

  7. You cannot compare Muslim Countries that perform genital mutilation with all countries that perform mutilation to try to prove a point. In fact, you made it seem like an African problem, since 21/30 countries that have this problem are African. Additionally, you can’t compare the 21 in Africa to all 47 in Africa, as Aslan specified it is mostly a central African problem. 49 countries in the world have a muslim majority. 19 of the ones that are in Africa have a female genital mutilation problem. The remaining ones don’t have this problem. so 39% of Muslim countries have this problem, but 70% of the countries with this problem are in Africa. You also say he should talk to Somalian women about their mutilation, as you want a snappy come-back. Well, I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but Somalia is in Africa, so you are further proving his point.

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    1. “You cannot compare Muslim Countries that perform genital mutilation with all countries that perform mutilation to try to prove a point.”

      I can and did. Correlation certainly doesn’t mean causation, but according to Reza it has nothing to do with Islam, and the facts disagree with him.

      About the global question that is for another time, but Reza did not address that so neither did I. I was replying to his points, not making my own.

      Like

  8. Wow, I’am utterly speechless. I saw Reza Aslan as a personal role model with a bi-partisan view of religion. I wish i could defend him but quite frankly i know to little and have such little insight to debate against such a rebuttal.

    Powerful stuff man, keep it up.

    Like

  9. You cannot compare Muslim Countries that perform female genital mutilation with all countries that perform mutilation to try to prove a point. In fact, you made it seem like an African problem, since 21/30 countries that have this problem are African. Additionally, you can’t compare the 21 in Africa to all 47 in Africa, as Aslan specified it is mostly a central African problem. 49 countries in the world have a muslim majority. 19 of the ones that are in Africa have a female genital mutilation problem. The remaining ones don’t have this problem. so 39% of Muslim countries have this problem, but 70% of the countries with this problem are in Africa. You also say he should talk to Somalian women about their mutilation, as you want a snappy come-back. Well, I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but Somalia is in Africa, so you are further proving his point.

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  10. MAKE SURE that you don’t label this OPINION piece as an atheist piece… you don’t represent atheists as a whole, so make sure that is clear.. so edit this piece…

    “Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%”

    What percent of any other continent has female genital mutilation?

    I think the calculation you did is a red herring.. that’s all.

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    1. “MAKE SURE that you don’t label this OPINION piece as an atheist piece… you don’t represent atheists as a whole, so make sure that is clear.. so edit this piece…”

      Make sure you don’t try and censor a free citizen, as he will likely say fuck off. This piece is not an opinion piece, I am not talking about Reza’s choice in women or clothing, I am talking about his fact claims which I prove with evidence. I am an atheist, and I represent myself – at no point do I claim to represent anyone else. If you think this piece will be edited, haha.

      “Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%”

      What percent of any other continent has female genital mutilation?

      I think the calculation you did is a red herring.. that’s all.”

      Not a red herring, I am replying to Reza’s point, if he spoke about other continents I would include other continents, but he never he spoke of Africa, so as did I.

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  11. “Out of the 29 main countries that conduct female genital mutilation in Africa – only 8 are Christian majority countries, with the remaining 21 all being an Islamic majority, go figure! Why didn’t you mention these statistics? Because they clearly prove you wrong, that’s why.

    Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%

    But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%

    So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!
    but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!

    Logic fail.”

    Actually Jordan, that entire passage of yours was the ‘logic fail’. Having ’21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM Islamic’ does NOT equal ‘70% of Islamic countries’. There are over 50 countries with majority Muslim populations, with the vast majority of the Muslim population outside Africa. It is entirely true to say FGM is almost entirely an African problem – but within Africa, more of a Muslim problem than a Christian one.

    Have you ever done any formal logic or maths at school? Do you even proof-read this stuff? Get a friend to next time, please.

    Like

    1. Actually Jordan, that entire passage of yours was the ‘logic fail’. Having ’21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM Islamic’ does NOT equal ’70% of Islamic countries’ …

      Actually it does, 70% of 30 = 21

      “more of a Muslim problem than a Christian one.”

      That was my point.

      “Have you ever done any formal logic or maths at school? Do you even proof-read this stuff? Get a friend to next time, please.”

      I did, you seem not to, let’s go through it again what is 70% of 30? 21

      Maybe get a calculator, then come back and apologise.

      Like

  12. All Reza Aslan said was that the problems of Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan are the problems of Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, not shared by more developed Muslim countries. Those problems weren’t caused by any intrinsic characteristic of Islam, they were caused by people who chose to reinterpret a centuries old text in radicalized terms because it suited their ego or thirst for power, and then their crazed followers created more crazed followers and so on and so forth. Just because some countries that are Islamic have serious problems that doesn’t mean that all Muslims should pay for their sins. You might as well expect all Caucasians to be labeled racists because the vast majority of racists were historically Caucasians. Imagine, if you will that all the racists in the US gathered in one single state, would it be fair to say that everyone who is from that state is a racist? NO. Just because an indeterminate number of people or even if the majority from this hypothetical state are racists, it doesn’t mean that their sins should be share by people who don’t share their opinion and just happen to be living in the same state.

    And thus the whole premise of your poorly written, and frankly laughable, article falls apart.

    Reza Aslan never said that those countries don’t have problems. He just said that you can’t paint all Islamic countries with the same brush. You said, and I quote:
    ————————————————————————————————————
    You are a wishy washy Muslim, you probably don’t believe a word of the Quran, but find that it is the faith of your people, and in turn align yourself as such. This is not a problem for me, although I find it sad and useless. What is a problem is you stand as a moderate, barely Muslim by any stretch of the imagination and then dare criticise the men and woman in the middle east who actually give a damn about their faith, the people who live by every word of the Quran and truly follow Islam. How dare such a diluted Muslim born in Iran no less take snipes at real Muslims in Iran who are fighting in a holy war, specifically mandated by them from their God and Holy book (the same holy book you have seemingly studied and chosen to ignore). You’re practically the same as a cultural Jew, who holds to none of the Dogma and believes none of the Holy Book, but just likes to keep some of the traditions because they feel guilt or it reminds them of their childhood. Again, this is your prerogative, but just as they cannot deny an orthodox Jew, you cannot deny a literal Muslim. ————————————————————————————————————————-

    From the looks of things it seems that you simply can’t wrap your head around the fact that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim. That any person who calls himself Muslim must, by definition, be hardcore Islamic. Anything less is just a watered down version. What dilution did you have in mind? 50%? More? Who the hell gave you authority to decide who is a diluted Muslim and who is not?

    Christianity began in Rome and spread to Africa. The original language was Latin but African churches hold sermons in local languages. Will you tell them that they are not Christians because they don’t even hold sermons in English, let alone in Latin? Will you call them watered down Christians?

    Finally, I am Hindu. The sacred text for Hindus is the Bhagwat Gita. I have never so much as held a copy of it in my hand, nor has anyone that I know. That doesn’t mean that we are diluted Hindus. I have Muslim friends. Many of them. Some of them are jerks, some of them are nice guys, same as any other. You claim that you are not Islamophobic. Do you have a single friend who is Muslim? And I don’t mean exchanged a casual conversion kind of friend. I mean that the kind of friend that you would call to wish Happy Birthday, the kind that you would invite to your house and whose house you would pop by in turn. I am willing to bet every last dollar I have that you don’t. You couldn’t possibly and if you did, you wouldn’t have such a narrow world view. Quite frankly you are an embarrassment to all atheists everywhere.

    Dude, you reek of Islamophobia.

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    1. “All Reza Aslan said was that the problems of Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan are the problems of Indonesia, Bangladesh and Pakistan, not shared by more developed Muslim countries.”

      That is not disputed. What is disputed is his absolute dismissal that it has ANYTHING to do with Islam.

      “Just because some countries that are Islamic have serious problems that doesn’t mean that all Muslims should pay for their sins.”

      I agree, and at no point do I generalise like that.

      “And thus the whole premise of your poorly written, and frankly laughable, article falls apart.”

      Being told my writing is laughable, by someone who finds paragraphs about generalisations that actually don’t exist, isn’t really an attack on me. You must be on some type of drug that makes you hallucinate generalisations.

      “Reza Aslan never said that those countries don’t have problems. He just said that you can’t paint all Islamic countries with the same brush.”

      And I never said he did, so why is this relevant? What did your read? because none of the ideas you are talking about are in the piece above.

      “From the looks of things it seems that you simply can’t wrap your head around the fact that there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim.”

      The fact that I allude to him being a moderate Muslim, makes that sentence weirdly idiotic.

      Who gave me the authority to say who is a watered down muslim and who is not? The Quran of course.

      “Christianity began in Rome and spread to Africa. The original language was Latin but African churches hold sermons in local languages. Will you tell them that they are not Christians because they don’t even hold sermons in English, let alone in Latin? Will you call them watered down Christians?”

      Logic fail – nowhere in the scripture (bible) does it say you have to recite in a certain language to be a Christian, although I technically don’t think there are any true Christians on the planet any more, how many people do I think are killing there friends for working on the Sabbath? According to the bible, to be a Christian, it is a must.

      “Finally, I am Hindu. The sacred text for Hindus is the Bhagwat Gita. I have never so much as held a copy of it in my hand, nor has anyone that I know. That doesn’t mean that we are diluted Hindus.”

      It might actually mean that, how can you be a Hindu if you don’t even know what the sacred text says? How do you know your not a Christian instead? Unless you mean you have never held the original text?

      ” You claim that you are not Islamophobic. Do you have a single friend who is Muslim?”

      haha, what a strange sentence, what on this earth does having a Muslim friend have to do with not liking Islam – I have two feet, and I like spaghetti, can you find a connection between those two things?
      I am not Islamophobic as it is not a word, and a “phobia” is an irrational fear – there is nothing irrational about fearing religion. I have nothing against humans, I have nothing against Muslims; I wonder why they believe what they do, but other than that they are the same as you and I. Human. My beef is with religion, not people.

      “And I don’t mean exchanged a casual conversion kind of friend. I mean that the kind of friend that you would call to wish Happy Birthday”

      I don’t use a phone to say happy birthday to people really, facebook was invented for that.

      “I am willing to bet every last dollar I have that you don’t. You couldn’t possibly and if you did, you wouldn’t have such a narrow world view. Quite frankly you are an embarrassment to all atheists everywhere.”

      How much money do you have? I know Jews, Christians, Muslims, and a few people who are just a bit crazy, not sure what cult they stick to yet. Quite frankly your response has had about as much logic as a floating piece of wood – I do not have a narrow view, I have read the holy books I speak of, you haven’t even read your own holy book – and you call my view narrow!

      “Dude, you reek of Islamophobia.”

      You reek of illogical nonsense. I was hoping your comment would have something worth reading, I was utterly disappointed.

      Like

  13. This is my refutation to your article here:

    Maher stated this:
    ” if vast numbers of Muslims across the world believe, and they do, that humans deserve to die for merely holding a different idea or drawing a cartoon or writing a book or eloping with the wrong person, not only does the Muslim world have something in common with ISIS; it has too much in common with ISIS.”
    If you deny any of this, 1) Wake up and smell the coffee 2) Stop lying & 3) You best go out there and tell more than 112 million Muslims that they are doing it wrong (that is the conservative number of political radicalised Muslims, the ones who adhere to apostasy threats, family shame and cartoon anger are near the absolute majority.
    The ignorance of the guy who wrote this article start with here Bill Maher has no education on Islamic theology also the writer of this article demonstrate a clear defense to Bill Maher’s logical fallacy that he commented here which is generalization by saying “Muslim world have something in common with ISIS; it has too much in common with ISIS” this is what called generalization logical fallacy I find it quite hypocritical for Mr. Smith to defend Maher here
    Anyway this is not the main point of my response the main point is in this alleged rebuttal to Reza Aslan
    (“I mean, the argument about the female genital mutilation being an Islamic problem is a perfect example of that. It’s not an Islamic problem. It’s an African problem …And that’s actually empirically factually incorrect … It’s a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.”
    WOW, hold on, you think Eritrea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic. You forgot to mention that, maybe you thought nobody would fact check you, my bad.
    Also Ethiopia a Christian country? Of course in the 4th century it adopted Christianity as the state religion – but unless you forgot, it is not the 4th century any more, how embarrassing of a “historian” to forget – Christianity is no longer the state religion, and only has 62% Christians and 34% Muslims which is no doubt more than 50%, but if the best evidence you have is calling 50% & 62% Christian majorities, then you have a big problem. Sorry again, I guess you thought being on CNN you wouldn’t get fact checked.)
    “Fact checked” hmmm will let us see “WOW, hold on, you think Eritrea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic.”
    Clear ignorance here I will quote Reza Aslan on this using his word thus is frankly “stupid” the real statics are (According to the Pew Research Center, around 62.9% of Eritrea’s population in 2010 adhered to Christianity, and 36.2% followed Islam. The remaining 0.9% of residents practiced other religions, including traditional faiths and animism.)
    Sorry to disappoint you Mr. Smith you are a liar here and your deception won’t work you claimed reza Aslan statics are wrong will sorry it turns out that you are wrong here in major points the majority of the country as Reza sated is still Christian AGAIN only 36.2 % is Muslim my suggestion to you Mr. Smith is don’t be a hypocrite
    (Let us look at the evidence against you, as the evidence you used yourself was dire and counter-productive to your own means. Is female genital mutilation an Islamic problem or not?
    Somalia 98% FGM – 99.8% Muslim & less than 0.1% Christian
    Djibouti 93% FGM – 94% Muslim 6% Christian
    Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 9% Christian
    Guinea 96% FGM – 85% Muslim & only 8% Christian
    Mali 89% FGM – 90% Muslim only 5% Christian
    Sudan 88% FGM – 98% Muslim >2% Christian
    Sierra Leone 88% FGM – 71% Muslim 27% Christian
    Out of the 29 main countries that conduct female genital mutilation in Africa – only 8 are Christian majority countries, with the remaining 21 all being an Islamic majority, go figure! Why didn’t you mention these statistics? Because they clearly prove you wrong, that’s why.)
    Not sure if you Mr. Smith lessened to what Reza Aslan said or not Reza Aslan said AGAIN “it’s not an Islamic problem it’s an AFRICAN PROBLEM” as for that you see clearly he know all about the states you mentioned here Mr. Smith your deception and misquoting Reza Aslan is disgusting
    But of course these Muslim countries you listed are only 7 how many Muslim countries out there? That is right more than 49 or over 49 countries out there is Muslim majority countries 7 out of 49+ is a tiny number this disgusting method of misquotation to Reza Aslan doesn’t work in real world Mr. Smith please it’s you who need “Fact check”
    (But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%
    So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!)
    Yes Mr. Smith it’s not a Islamic thing it’s strictly prohibited in Islam here are some hadiths (sayings of the prophet) for ya
    Narrated `Abdullah bin Yazid Al-Ansari:
    The Prophet forbade robbery (taking away what belongs to others without their permission), and also forbade mutilation (or maiming) of bodies.
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2474
    In-book reference : Book 46, Hadith 35
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 43, Hadith 654
    Another hadith
    Sunan Ibn Majah:
    It was narrated that Safwan bin ‘Assil said:
    “The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) sent us in a military detachment and said: ‘Go in the Name of Allah, and in the cause of Allah. Fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Do not mutilate, do not be treacherous, do not steal from the spoils of war, and do not kill children.’”
    Grade: Hasan (Darussalam)
    English reference : Vol. 1, Book 24, Hadith 2857
    Arabic reference : Book 24, Hadith 2966
    Another hadith:
    Narrated Buraidah:
    from his father who said: “Whenever the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) dispatched a commander of an army he would exhort him personally; that he should have Taqwa of Allah, and regarding those of the Muslims who are with him; that he should be good to them. He would say: ‘Fight in the Name of Allah and in Allah’s curse. Fight those who disbelieve in Allah and fight, do not be treacherous, nor mutilate, nor kill a child.”
    Grade: Sahih (Darussalam)
    Reference: Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1408
    In-book reference : Book 16, Hadith 24
    English translation: Vol. 3, Book 14, Hadith 1408
    Another hadith:
    Muwatta Malik:
    Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz wrote to one of his governors, “It has been passed down to us that when the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sent out a raiding party, he would say to them, ‘Make your raids in the name of Allah in the way of Allah. Fight whoever denies Allah. Do not steal from the booty, and do not act treacherously. Do not mutilate and do not kill children.’ Say the same to your armies and raiding parties, Allah willing. Peace be upon you.”
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 21, Hadith 11
    Arabic reference : Book 21, Hadith 972
    I can bring so much more that prohibited Mutilation IN GENERAL not just female genital mutilation or even male genital mutilation or even mutilation itself here as showed is not allowed this hadith talk about mutilation in general means all types of mutilation not just genital type what else could you ask for ?
    Oh and BTW it also said don’t kill children so your later statement that ISIS is killing people as pure Islamic because ISIS is killing children too is straight here refuted as well
    (but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!
    Logic fail.)
    Oh no I’m sorry Mr. Smith your logic failed miserably so please not just do Fact check do also reality check for yourself next time now as for your claim that 70% of Islamic countries allow this practice therefore it’s an Islamic problem is pure sophistry not only you didn’t provided any source for this claim but the claim itself has been refuted
    (The fact you dared to say “Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.” is disgustingly untrue, tell that statement to the 98% of women in Somalia who have no clitoris or labia left you lying toad; it’s so untrue it is almost wickedly offensive, the evidence above shows you are either a liar or as you said on CNN, “stupid”.)
    Did you just lessened to what Reza said he said “NOWHERE ELSE” as means he didn’t deny the female genital mutilation in Africa as you showed here the countries you showed Mr. Smith is African Reza Aslan didn’t deny it he refuted it and showed nowhere else means all other Muslim countries OUTSIDE AFRICA allow female genital mutilation so please don’t misrepresent Reza Aslan here Mr. Smith just don’t be a hypocrite
    (I will not question your credentials (like many others have)
    You didn’t even got close to that
    (Your life story (born in Iran to a Muslim family, converting to Christianity, converting back to Islam) doesn’t sound like a man trying to find truth, more a man trying to find faith, it doesn’t really matter which one, as long as you don’t have to own up to the reality of entropy.)
    ad hominem logical fallacy here you are attacking him now for being a Muslim revert (like myself I was an atheist and then returned to Islam) now you deny him and call his life “silly” Please learn the basics of logical fallacies before writing an article you are an embarrassment
    then later in the Article you tell us your life story but before you criticized Reza Aslan’s life story as “a man isn’t trying to find the truth”? what is truth to you? Leaving Islam is the truth?
    (Why are you not truthful enough to tell people that ISIS are not only Islamic but take their faith more serious than any other so called Muslims?)
    THIS is so disgustingly stupid ignorant foolish and hypocritical coming out of you the fact that ISIS want to destroy Kaaba and al-gaeda rejected them as being ”too violent” and the fact they make fake beheadings don’t believe check YouTube for the fake beheadings I recommend red pill revolution YouTube channel
    And as I showed that killing children is not allowed in Islam and that ISIS is doing it is and I will Quote Reza Aslan “perfect example” to show ISIS is not Islamic at all on top of all that ISIS is the name of a goddess from the polytheistic pantheon of Egypt. She was first worshiped in Ancient Egyptian religion
    So you see EVEN THE NAME of this group isn’t Islamic at ALL

    (How can you, with a straight face denounce the work of ISIS yet know full well everything they do is a carbon copy of the will of Mohammed – Did the prophet attempt a peaceful caliphate? Or did he bring war? Does Islam give the freedom of leaving the faith, or does it hold a penalty of death?)
    Another piece of ad hominem attacking Reza Aslan personally really pleas Mr. Smith learn logical fallacies 101 Muhammad as I SHOWED and I can bring even more strictly prohibited killing of children that ISIS is doing now second that fact you said “peaceful Caliphate” shows your ignorance in Islam there was NO Caliphate at the time of the prophet ONLY after his death this shows you didn’t do your homework Reza Aslan point still stand Clear
    (You know you are being disingenuous, you know you are lying, your audience of low information voters and fans who line up in agreement, but won’t dare research to see what they are agreeing to don’t know any better, but you do. You have a responsibility to inform them of the truth.)
    Oh no Mr. Smith as we saw you are the lying spirit here your misquoted Reza Aslan you misinterpret him you called him with words and made ad hominem fallacies and never apologized you brought NOTHING to the table against an academic like Reza Aslan so my advice to you first learn logical fallacies and second don’t be a hypocrite and lie to your audience
    (You have said:
    “I’m a person of faith, and the language that I use to define my faith, the symbols and metaphors that I rely upon to express my faith, are those provided by Islam because they make the most sense to me. The Buddha once said, “If you want to draw water, you don’t dig six 1-ft. wells, you dig one 6-ft. well.” Islam is my 6-ft. well. But I recognize that I am drawing the same water that everyone around me is.”
    This last sentence is very poignant; I base every decision on scientific scrutiny, not just the ones that suit me like you do, therefore I can’t follow you down the path of believing nonsense. You are a wishy washy Muslim,)
    It’s quite obvious now what I’m dealing with here is a left-wing lunatic who didn’t even understand Reza Aslan Quote here means he investigated Islam using logic and reason and critical thinking Unlike you Mr.smith bought into atheism without clear evidence for it like I did before then later like Aslan I returned to Islam after investigating using logic and critical thinking if I say Islam made sense to me does this means I didn’t investigate it? Of course not so stop being dishonest Mr.smith
    (you probably don’t believe a word of the Quran, but find that it is the faith of your people, and in turn align yourself as such. This is not a problem for me, although I find it sad and useless. What is a problem is you stand as a moderate, barely Muslim by any stretch of the imagination and then dare criticize the men and woman in the middle east who actually give a damn about their faith, the people who live by every word of the Quran and truly follow Islam. How dare such a diluted Muslim born in Iran no less take snipes at real Muslims in Iran who are fighting in a holy war, specifically mandated by them from their God and Holy book (the same holy book you have seemingly studied and chosen to ignore). You’re practically the same as a cultural Jew, who holds to none of the Dogma and believes none of the Holy Book, but just likes to keep some of the traditions because they feel guilt or it reminds them of their childhood. Again, this is your prerogative, but just as they cannot deny an orthodox Jew, you cannot deny a literal Muslim.)
    ad hominem one after another this is getting embarrassing Mr.Smith not only you haven’t provided any proof whatsoever for the quote above but you made another ad hominem fallacies should I call you the ad hominem guy? Maybe I should the fact that I live by every word in the Quran like Reza Aslan Like 1.6+ Billion people out there is if that is the case don’t you think we will all be dead by now???? Or that you are just being dishonest yourself and disingenuous and a liar deceiver sorry Mr.smith but people like me who use there mind and critical thinking won’t believe the nonsense coming out of your mouth until we investigate it and see if it sticks up to the reality
    (So in closing, please stop lying on CNN, because although you have mindless fans who will clap along, you also have informed debaters and fervent non-believers who actually fact check, like me – We, the informed: with our Google, our evidence, our love of statistics, our willingness to open a Holy Book and our attitude towards learning as many true things and discarding as many false things as possible, will be on you like a fly on shit. You will be held accountable. Your claims can and will be verified independently and it will affect your reputation as a “scholar”.)
    People like you distorts Reality and being dishonest deceiving liars Reza Aslan spoke the truth and you know it you just want your gullible audience to believe you atheists like you will grape on anything for there life and argument even if it was a misquotation and deception
    My advice please stop being hypocrite

    Conclusion :you haven’t refuted Reza Aslan you just refuted yourself

    Like

    1. Thank you for the reply

      “The ignorance of the guy who wrote this article start with here Bill Maher has no education on Islamic theology also the writer of this article demonstrate a clear defense to Bill Maher’s logical fallacy that he commented here which is generalization by saying “Muslim world have something in common with ISIS; it has too much in common with ISIS” this is what called generalization logical fallacy I find it quite hypocritical for Mr. Smith to defend Maher here”

      Ignorance, if only. If you mean I have no education on Islam then all I can say is your evidence will be welcome any time. It would be easier to understand if the sentence you wrote made sense. Bill didn’t fall into the logical fallacy, because he never asserted all Muslims felt a certain way. He has done stories on the points he made previously, you must not have seen them; the evidence for which are overwhelming. He said the people he mentioned, have too much in common with ISIS, not a fallacy, completely true.

      ““Fact checked” hmmm will let us see “WOW, hold on, you think Eritrea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic.”
      Clear ignorance here I will quote Reza Aslan on this using his word thus is frankly “stupid” the real statics are (According to the Pew Research Center … 2010”

      What year is it again? Remind me… I used the pew results, if you clicked the hyperlink, you would have noticed.

      “Sorry to disappoint you Mr. Smith you are a liar here”

      No, not in the slightest, again you are using results from 2010, it is 2014, click the link. Not being able to use hyperlinks doesn’t hold you in good stead.

      “Not sure if you Mr. Smith lessened to what Reza Aslan said”

      I surely did not lessened to him…

      ” Mr. Smith your deception and misquoting Reza Aslan is disgusting”

      Your stupidity is heartbreaking, no deception, facts, that are sourced, click the links.

      “But of course these Muslim countries you listed are only 7”

      Lies, that is not just 7 it is 7 of 29, read the words.

      “Yes Mr. Smith it’s not a Islamic thing it’s strictly prohibited in Islam here are some hadiths (sayings of the prophet) for ya”

      WOW, we have a dumb one here – at NO point do I mention that this is an or even nearly just an Islamic problem, I refute Reza’s claim that is has NOTHING to do with Islam which is false. Also AT NO POINT do I claim FGM is anywhere mandated by The Quran, I know it is not mandated by both the Quran and the Hadith, I have researched the matter. That is why, if you cared to notice, I never said such. But I find it funny how I use the same verses in arguments on my end and Muslims say “you’re reading it out of context” haha aren’t we both?

      “Oh and BTW it also said don’t kill children so your later statement that ISIS is killing people as pure Islamic because ISIS is killing children too is straight here refuted as well”

      I have no idea what you are talking about, I never said that.

      “Oh no I’m sorry Mr. Smith your logic failed miserably”

      “not only you didn’t provided any source for this claim”

      Yer, only the like 15 sourced links, just those, basically nothing.

      “Did you just lessened to what Reza said”

      Please keep spelling listened like that, it’s great being told you’re not logical by someone who cannot spell.

      “You didn’t even got close to that”

      I didn’t need to, many people have laughed at claims that Reza is a historian.

      “ad hominem logical fallacy here you are attacking him now for being a Muslim revert (like myself I was an atheist and then returned to Islam) now you deny him and call his life “silly” Please learn the basics of logical fallacies before writing an article you are an embarrassment”

      Not a logical fallacy if it is true; also this is not a logical fallacy. Learn logical fallacies.

      “You tell us your life story … leaving islam is the truth?”

      At no point do I tell my life story, at no point have I ever been a Muslim. Your comment is getting completely absurd now.

      “THIS is so disgustingly stupid ignorant foolish and hypocritical coming out of you the fact that ISIS want to destroy Kaaba and al-gaeda rejected them as being ”too violent” and the fact they make fake beheadings don’t believe check YouTube for the fake beheadings I recommend red pill revolution YouTube channel”

      I am out of words.

      “EVEN THE NAME of this group isn’t Islamic at ALL”

      Let’s see … ISIS … Islamic … STOP, there it is.

      Another piece of ad hominem attacking Reza Aslan personally really”

      Yawn, not an ad hominem.

      “Oh no Mr. Smith as we saw you are the lying spirit here your misquoted Reza Aslan you misinterpret him”

      At no point do I misquote mislead or misinterpret.

      “It’s quite obvious now what I’m dealing with here is a left-wing lunatic who didn’t even understand Reza Aslan Quote here means he investigated Islam using logic and reason and critical thinking Unlike you Mr.smith bought into atheism without clear evidence for it like I did before then later like Aslan I returned to Islam after investigating using logic and critical thinking if I say Islam made sense to me does this means I didn’t investigate it? Of course not so stop being dishonest Mr.smith”

      The nonsense in this paragraph is on a whole new level, that’s some 2017 shit.

      ” Maybe I should the fact that I live by every word in the Quran like Reza Aslan Like 1.6+ Billion people out there is if that is the case don’t you think we will all be dead by now????”

      Oh I bet you don’t. And how does not living by the Quran mean you would suddenly be dead? To be killed for apostasy everyone else would have to be puritanical Muslims, you moan about logical fallacies and don’t know what they are and when you are using them.

      ” people like me who use there mind and critical thinking won’t believe the nonsense coming out of your mouth until we investigate it and see if it sticks up to the reality”

      I’m begging you, from the bottom of my heart, please investigate and use critical thinking, for once in you life, just before it’s all over – It would please me.

      “People like you distorts Reality and being dishonest deceiving liars Reza Aslan spoke the truth and you know it you just want your gullible audience to believe you atheists like you will grape on anything for there life and argument even if it was a misquotation and deception
      My advice please stop being hypocrite”

      I would love to give you advice, but I think it’s pointless, you are too far gone. Here is hoping the Quran is true and you fly off on a winged horse also … ha

      “Conclusion :you haven’t refuted Reza Aslan you just refuted yourself”

      Conclusion F- Does not know what logical fallacies are, cannot spell “please” or “listen”. Hates reading deceit and ad homs, uses deceit and ad homs.

      MUST TRY HARDER.

      Like

      1. Are all of you islam apologist deaf, dumb, blind. Just look at what is going on all over the world where islam is practiced and you see mayham. murder, honor killings, war between themselves, kidnappings of girls to be sold as slaves, suicide bombings, killing mostly civilians, beheadings videotaped and shown the world over, throwing acid in 9 year old girls faces just for going to school wanting to be educated. (which I consider the worst form of scum on the face of the planet), and almost all of it done in the name of what is written in islams holy books!! The main reason for this, is that they are keeping with their 1000 year old problem with sex and how to control it, as do all civilizations and religions. Their big problem is that they are not willing to come into the current century with its freedoms from such bullshit. Since 9/11 there has been thousands of deadly terrorist attacks and most of it, is muslims killing other muslims.

        Like

  14. You’re completely missing Reza’s point about FGM. The WHO, UN, most epidemiologists, etc. acknowledge this is not a religious issue. Why? Well a few reasons:

    1. FGM predates Islam, and is largely restricted to countries in a narrow geographic region that can be described as “central Africa.”

    2. African Christians and animists practice FGM as well as Muslims.

    3. Muslims outside of Africa, such as Indonesia, Bangladesh, etc. do not practice FGM. If it were indeed a “Muslim practice” we’d expect it not to be restricted to one narrow geographic region.

    In short, FGM is not a Muslim practice, it comes from a pre-Islamic, pre-Christian culture and has persisted to the current date.

    Like

    1. “You’re completely missing Reza’s point about FGM.”
      I promise you, I never. And to prove it, I will explain how your next few points are irrelevant.

      “1. FGM predates Islam, and is largely restricted to countries in a narrow geographic region that can be described as “central Africa.””

      Correct, I never said it didn’t, I never said Islam created FGM, I never said it is only an Islamic problem.

      “2. African Christians and animists practice FGM as well as Muslims.”

      Correct, but only to a lesser extent, not as much, in high quantities as Muslims. Highest FGM top 5, all Muslim majorities.

      “3. Muslims outside of Africa, such as Indonesia, Bangladesh, etc. do not practice FGM. If it were indeed a “Muslim practice” we’d expect it not to be restricted to one narrow geographic region.”

      Correct, at no point to I say they did or didn’t Reza did not address this, and as I was addressing his points in an open letter, it would seen weird to mention.

      “In short, FGM is not a Muslim practice, it comes from a pre-Islamic, pre-Christian culture and has persisted to the current date.”

      Incorrect, FGM is a Muslim practise (in other places although not many it is a “fill in the blank” practise, it is practised in many Muslim countries, actually FGM in the world is mostly practised by Muslims.

      Like

    2. Actually you’re wrong. Take a look at this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country) which is very well sourced and see where FGM is practiced outside of Africa. Sorry to disappoint you, but the majority of muslim countries practice it in some fashion. Keep in mind that the statistics are hard to obtain as many of these countries hide this information from the outside world. I’m just highlighting SOME statistics below. Read the article for a full picture.

      Malaysia
      Female genital mutilation Type I and IV is prevalent in Malaysia, where 93% of females from Muslim families (at least 57% of the female population have been mutilated. It is widely considered as a female sunnah tradition (sunat perempuan), typically done by midwife (mak bid an). Malaysian women claim religious obligation (82%) as the primary reason for female circumcision. Malaysia is a multicultural society, FGM is prevalent in Muslim community, and not observed in its minority Buddhist and Hindu communities. (surprise surprise!!)

      Maldives
      Female genital mutilation is practiced in Maldives. Maldives’ Attorney General Husnu Suood claims FGM was eradicated from Maldives by the 1990s, but the practice of female circumcision in Maldives is reviving because of Islamic fatwas from religious scholars in Maldives who preach that it as compulsory. Religious leaders have renewed their calls for FGM in 2014.

      Singapore
      Female genital mutilation is practiced by the Malay Muslim community in Singapore.

      Philippines
      Female genital mutilation is prevalent in parts of Philippines. The communities that practice FGM call it Pag-Sunnat, sometimes Pag-Islam, and include Tausugs of Mindanao, Yakan of Basilan and other Muslim communities of Philippines.

      Indonesia
      Female genital mutilation Type I and IV is prevalent in Indonesia; 97.5% of females from Muslim families (at least 85% of females in Indonesia) are mutilated by age 18. In certain communities of Indonesia, mass female circumcision (khitanan massal) ceremony are organized by local Islamic foundations around Prophet Muhammad’s birthday.

      Yemen
      According to a 2008 UNICEF report, 30% prevalence; in addition to the adult prevalence, UNICEF reports that 20% of women aged 15–49 have a daughter who had the procedure in Yemen. In 4 of Yemen’s 21 governorates, according to a 2008 report, the FGM prevalence rates exceed 80%: al-Hudaydah (97%), Hadhramaut (97%), al-Mahrah (97%) and Adan (82%); Sana’a Governorate, which includes the capital of Yemen, has a prevalence rate of 46%.

      United Arab Emirates
      The WHO mentions a study that documents FGM in the United Arab Emirates, but does not provide data. The practice is reportedly prevalent in rural and urban UAE.) In a 2011 survey, 34% of Emirati female respondents said they were circumcised, and explained the practice to customs and tradition.

      Saudi-Arabia
      Female genital mutilation is prevalent in Saudi Arabia. FGM is most prevalent in Saudi regions following Shafi’i school within the Sunni sect of Islam, such as Hejaz, Tihamah and Asir.

      Oman
      The practice is prevalent in Oman; 78%] of females have been mutilated.

      Kuwait
      Female genital mutilation is prevalent in Kuwait in the Maliki madhab of Sunni Muslims. A 2011 study finds 38% of women having undergone FGM, with Type II and III common.

      Iraq
      Female genital mutilation is prevalent in Iraqi Kurdistan, with an FGM rate of 72% for the entire region and exceeding 80% in Garmyan and New Kirkuk.

      Iran
      Female genital mutilation is prevalent in Iranian Kurdistan. The estimated rate of mutilated girls and women varies between studies, ranging from 40% to 85%. A 2012 study in Kermanshah province of Iran suggests FGM is a common practice in Ravansars’ women, with over 55% of girls have been circumcised less than 7 years age.

      Like

  15. Your whole piece about genital mutilation and Africa is retarded. You accuse him of being wrong about the mutilation only happen in Africa then don’t give any examples of it happening anywhere else. Also your use of percentages are meaningless without the population figures, youw being deliberately misleading, did you think nobody would fact check you?

    Like

    1. I’m sure you felt rather satisfied after you commented with that, it would have worked if only you could write a proper English sentence.

      Like

  16. One thing i forgot! The conservative Muslims are really crazy! They look in the old violant biographies (hadiths, written 250 years after Muhammad!) – not in the Koran!!! – and try to live a life like him: a lifestyle of the 7. century! But one thing you should not forget! According to the biographies the daughters of Muhammad had no female genital mutilation. So female genital mutilation according to Islam, even conservative, is wrong!

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  17. I have only read the first half of this post because I just wanted to see how Reza Aslan’s claims that female genital mutilation and Islam are not connected were dismissed, as I was skeptical myself when I heard him talking on CNN. But after doing so, I have to conclude that he was actually right, and that this criticism doesn’t hold up.

    It is said in the text:

    So 44.6% of African countries = African problem! [..] but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam! [..] Logic fail.

    This is not a logic fail. It is not even mixing up correlation and causation. It is just you purposely ignoring that he was not referring to the whole of Africa, but to the fairly contiguous set of Central African states where female genital mutilation is a prevalent practice. It is not important whether 30, 50 or 70 percent of those countries have Islam as their state religion. They could all be Muslim countries and it still wouldn’t matter. The point is, this practice is fairly confined to a certain geographical region, and it doesn’t happen outside of that region. That suggests a geographical correlation, not a religious one. Isn’t this obvious? For it to be religious, you would have to prove that female genital mutilation is prevalent in Muslim countries regardless their location or their ethnic composition, and also that it doesn’t happen in other countries.

    In other words, you could have just changed ‘African’ for ‘Central African’ in the above statement and your whole argument would have fallen apart…(by the way, he did say ‘Central African’ at some point during the video).

    PS: Connecting it to Central Africa is still correlation and not causation. But at least it is a correlation that makes sense.

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  18. Wonderful job erasing comments that point out where you are factually wrong. It is so ironic that you’re supposed to be here fighting zealots, when you behave exactly like one. Wonderful job, again.

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    1. Oops, sorry, my previous comment was not shown a few minutes ago, even after I reloaded the page a couple of times, so I assumed it had been erased…weird.

      Like

  19. About FGM, you didn’t get Reza’s point. When he says it’s an African problem, he means that you cannot find this phenomenon in other muslim countries out of Africa. The fact that 70% of countries in which FGM is an issue are muslim countries doesn’t mean that it’s an issue in all muslim countries and thus an issue with Islam. So as he says in his interview with CNN, you are also generalizing this by saying becasue FGM is done mainly in muslim countries, so it’s a muslim issue. You cannot find this phenomenon in Iran or Turkey, for example, at a national level. You find this in these two countries partly in Kurdish communities. That shows this is more a traditional issue and depends on the traditions of a specific region. So this is not simply a question of mathematics that you can solve by your “70%” calculation.

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    1. I definitely get his point; I don’t assert it is only a Muslim problem, although the evidence points to mostly a Islamic one.

      “… That shows this is more a traditional issue and depends on the traditions of a specific region. So this is not simply a question of mathematics that you can solve by your “70%” calculation.”

      I agree, I feel it is both cultural, geographical and scripture based (although not specific mandates, but ideologies – subjugation of women.) It is not a simple question of mathematics, I was simply replying to his mathematical claims.

      Thank you for the comment.

      Like

    1. “I find it interesting that anti theists read the Quran in the exact same way that fundamentalists do.”

      As it was written? You see, Muslims and Christians who A) have not read their holy books or B) are embarrassed of the horrid nature of them, tend to change what it says “to them” and interpret it to be something nicer.

      So that is why.

      Like

  20. Let’s go by simple logic here.

    If female genitalia mutilation occurs in 8 christian countries, it’s obviously not just an islamic problem. Especially not because it apparently doesn’t happen in every islamic state.

    The point Reza made was that it’s mainly an African problem, and your article seems to be proving him correct.

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    1. “Let’s go by simple logic here.

      If female genitalia mutilation occurs in 8 christian countries, it’s obviously not just an islamic problem. Especially not because it apparently doesn’t happen in every islamic state.

      The point Reza made was that it’s mainly an African problem, and your article seems to be proving him correct.”

      Let’s, at what point did I say FGM is just an “Islamic problem”? Correct, I never. I was refuting the falsehood of what Reza said, which is that it basically has nothing to do with Islam, which is laughable. as you bring up 8 Christian countries, but forget to mention the 21 other Muslims ones. My article proves Reza wrong, and also deceitful, it may well be a problem in Africa, that is not to be disputed, but to claim it is nothing to do with Islam, is plainly stupid.

      Like

      1. I don’t agree with the original comment either but wait a minute! How are Muslims a “race” and how is saying something derogatory about Muslims “racist”?

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  21. I couldn’t help notice a false equivalence that you used. You compared “21 out of 47 African countries practice FGM” with “21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practice FGM are Islamic”. Either compare the fraction of African countries that practice FGM with the fraction of Muslim countries (out of all Muslim countries) that practice FGM, or compare the fraction of FGM-practicing countries that are African with the fraction of FGM-practicing countries that are Muslim.

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  22. Islam has the same moral law as christianity: You are not allowed to hurt a person. So FGM is not allowed. If you look in Wikipedia etc. you will find that Islam was the 1. religion that allowed women to divorce on their own and marry another man. Grounds for divorce were p.ex. bad treatment by husband and no sexual satisfaction!!! So FGM is wrong according to the laws, because ist bad for sexual pleasure!

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  23. here’s a letter to you:
    you see what is the difference between you and a moderate muslim? they read Quran paying attention to the “context”. when it says” kill them wherever you find them”, considering the time and history of the sentence , you’ll see it is talking about a time when after years of hostility and violence performed on the new religion in various ways by the atheists, now muslims are allowed to react! or about women, in a time when every man was allowed to have as many wives as he wanted and afforded, Islam limits it to only 4 and it even emphasizes that choosing one wife is the best way and it also was a time that finding a husband who could support you socially and financially was a blessing for a woman no matter if she was the first or the second. it was a time when they dig their daughters in the ground, and Muhammad praises his daughter to the extent that he says his legacy would continue through her, he kisses his wife’s hand in front of all the city in such a time, how brave a man could be to do such a deconstruction of old beliefs? about slavery too, there existed a slavery system in that society which Islam tries to modify it and set new milder rules for that and setting free the slaves becomes a value which worth a prize! May I ask you what would you do if you were in charge of such a movement? Would you demand for an immediate change in every costume of a nation? Would you change a culture suddenly or would you prefer moderate reform? How long a person lives to do all those things single handedly? Is it possible at all? But you see in a so short time Muhammad made a great change. He turned a primitive society to a civilization which its effects now last in humanity’s history of thought, philosophy, science and art.

    you may be right that some of Islamic or in general Religious ideas are too bad for our time, but a moderate muslim thinks they could be changed. in her/his opinion, they are only some principals like the existence of a union God, which are universal and should remain constant but the details and the rules could be and must be revised through the time, that’s why we have things like mullahs, ayatollahs, fatwas and especially for the shiest Imams.( I know that they don’t do their jobs and they turned out to be thieves and criminals! But this is an example of thousands of good ideas which turned bad in action. We cannot condemn the theory or its theorizer. It would be a fallacy to call Marx, the responsible for what communists did in Russia or Nietzsche for what Nazi’s did.) They are to be some experts whose job is to revise rules, think about the new issues and even to interpret the text, since as you know texts are always open to interpretation by people and thanks to Derrida we know that there is no ultimate meaning we can decide on in a text, so beauty and also ugliness lies in the eye of the beholder. ISIS has ugly eyes, i agree but there are so many other muslims who call their ideas, the religion of peace. It’s only the point of view! if you are flexible enough to consider the context of Quran’s text and refer to the actions of authorities of the religion with the same consideration, in other words if you make a dialect between change and constancy (Mobility in Greenblatt’s terms), then you will see there are no religion”s” but only one religion and that would be peace and truth which is the ultimate desire of any human soul. One you can even call it no religion! In this respect there would be no difference between muhammad, Jesus,Aristotle, Nietzche, deleuze and you. This is us who make fallacies and mix things and become hostile to others due to lack of ability of good communication and understanding.

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  24. The trouble with Islam as I see it is that it was spread by a General-at-arms rather than your average run-of-the-mill prophet/son-of-god miracle worker. Say what you want about Christianity (and I could say plenty) Jesus was not a Warlord. A revolutionary perhaps, but he did not lead men to concur nations. Mohammad on the other-hand did. The hard truth I feel we need to wrap our brains around is that Islam has at it’s core a violent totalitarian example to follow which, while not impossible to interrupt as peaceful, is at the very least more difficult.

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  25. “Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%”

    Strawman argument. Reza Aslan specifically said it was a “Central African problem”.

    “But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%

    So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!
    but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!”

    Wrong. 21 out of 53 Muslim countries = 39.6%, not 70%

    According to your irrational “logic”:

    39.6% of Muslim countries = Islamic problem!

    44.6% of African countries = Not an African problem!

    “Logic fail.”

    Logic fail indeed. You might want to try use some logic yourself before criticizing others for it.

    Like

    1. Wrong again, I see how you would find my logic flawed, especially when using your logic. It seems to me you think my comparison of the majority Muslim states in Africa is deceitful. as you think I was talking about majority Muslim states around the world – which I was not talking about. You are simply mistaken, easy mistake to make.

      Like

    1. That site, is wrong; most importantly it doesn’t place the claims under the microscope as I do. Seem clearly from the central african map they use.

      Like

    2. Actually they published a followup to that report, which went on to say that things are not as simple as they made it seem. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2014/oct/21/revisiting-reza-aslans-response-bill-maher-about-f/

      Some of the issues with their first “Fact Check” are that they used UNICEF report for their data. UNICEF relies on national survey data, but “many Middle Eastern women may be reluctant to admit they have been through the procedure, as it’s more secretive than the public rite of passage in some African countries.”

      They go on to say….

      “In addition to Iraq and Yemen…it happens in Asian countries that include Oman, United Arab Emirates, Iran, Pakistan, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, the Maldives and the Philippines. The evidence is not always scientific. (see above why) Here are some examples from Muslim-majority countries featured on “Stop FGM Middle East” website:

      Iran: The group’s Iran page mentions evidence of FGM within Iran’s Kurdish population and in Iraqi refugee camps in 2008 from sample studies. In 2011, a medical survey presented at a national health congress showed a prevalence rate of 55 percent of 348 women questioned from the Kermanshah province.

      UAE: A graduate student surveyed 200 male and female Emiratis, and 34 percent of the women said they were circumcised. The student’s work is published in an article for the Dubai Women’s College magazine, Desert Dawn.

      Oman: Bloggers have reported that one version of the practice (a complete excision of the clitoris and labia minora) is widespread in southern province of Dhofar and another (known as the “pricking” of the clitoris) is practiced in the north.

      Advocates including UNICEF highlighted a 2003 report called “Female Circumcision in Indonesia.” In Indonesia, 89 percent of the country identifies as Muslim, according to the Pew Research Center.

      This research report shows the practice happens in Indonesia, and that many believe the practice to be a religious requirement of Islam, but exact numbers are not known.”

      This Wikipedia sums up these smaller studies and reports nicely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country

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  26. Your grasp of comparative analysis is tenuous at best. Let me offer a simple research design to help you. Investigate the following two hypotheses: 1) Aslan’s point is that FGM is an Africa problem (implying it’s not a problem in other parts of the world). Therefore, the null hypothesis here is: FGM is NOT an African problem. Your object is to either reject or fail to reject this hypothesis. In order to test this, you need variance in your sample. You should get a list of all countries by continent, then make a simple table with the sum of countries that practice FGM by continent. What do you see? Are there large numbers of countries outside of Africa that practice FGM? Do we reject or fail to reject the null hypothesis? 2) Next, we come to your claim that Islam encourages/is responsible for the practice of FGM, which yields the hypothesis: Islam is responsible for FGM. If this is true, then we should be able to observe FGM in a variety of Muslim countries on numerous continents throughout the world. To test this, you should get a count of every majority Muslim country in the world that practices FGM and divide that by the total number of Muslim countries in the world. The further away from 1 you are, the less support the hypothesis has. If it’s less than .20, then I would say your claim is unsubstantiated (my opinion). You may choose to do a robustness check by using population data. Take the sum total population of all majority Muslim countries that practice FGM and divide that by the sum total population of all majority Muslim countries. Again, the further from 1, the less support you will have for your hypothesis.

    This sort of analysis will make your argument more compelling regarding FGM and Islam, assuming you find evidence to support your claim. Take it from somebody who is published in peer reviewed journals specializing in comparative analysis: your current analytical approach stinks. Good luck.

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    1. You seem to be confused about what I address. Very much like when anyone says “I don’t like Islam” and Ben Affleck says “that’s racist and gross”, I addressed the validity of the claim by Reza that he feels there is enough evidence to prove FGM an African problem – but will not agree it has anything to do with Islam. Which is intellectually dishonest. IF his piece was about world FGM numbers, or continental numbers, I would have addressed that specifically like you have mentioned – but that was not what the piece was about. Thank you for the comment.

      Like

  27. Damn, spot on!

    The outrageous blinkered apologist stance toward islam is getting out of hand and Aslan is effectively little more than a liar, Greenwald is just as intellectually dishonest.
    Muslims have to begin to separate themselves from islam and realise a criticism of islam doesn’t mean an attack on them personally.
    Sheesh, is it really hard to work that out?

    Like

  28. I’m not a big fan of any religion – least of all Islam, but I think Reza’s point was that the Media and Bill Maher are painting Islam with a broad fundamentalist stroke. He may have gone off on a tangent regarding counting countries in Africa, but that wasn’t his primary assertion. He pointed out that the majority of Islam is not fundamentalist (by your own admission) and don’t promote FMG. Indonesia has 252M people, Iran 77.5M, Turkey 77M, and India’s Muslim population is around 140M and FMG is infrequent or non-existent whereas and Saudi Arabia’a population is less than 30M which are the Wahabi bad guys, Sierra Leon 6.2M, etc…and yet the media and Maher make it sound like FMG is everywhere. Reza also points out that in some of these countries women hold offices that have yet to be attained in many western countries including the US.

    Also, Reza points out that a religion isn’t necessarily contained completely in the holy texts…the religion is defined by how people put it into practice and live it in their daily lives. The author of this article attacks this notion and makes the text itself the key defining element. He basically paints Reza as a bad Muslim because he isn’t a fundamentalist in how he interprets and lives out the texts. That is a very narrow viewpoint almost reminiscent of a fundamentalist attitude and judgment in itself. The Catholic Church and Judaism have a long tradition of “tradition” and interpretation being as key as the text itself because the texts are always subject to some level of interpretation. Tradition provides the constructs to do the interpretation….otherwise, why would you have the Pope saying “who am I to judge” as he recently did which is counter to thousands of years of the Church actually doing that judging!

    If you are going to attack Islam for anything, I would say the problem is they give their Imams way, way too much political power just as the Romans did the Catholic Church and the Jews did the Levitical/Cohen priest traditions in the long past. When you have people like Ayotollah Khomeini imprisioning other more moderate grand Ayotallah’s as he did and ruling with an iron fist…then trouble abounds…always has…always will.

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    1. It’s not that the author rejects the intricacies, as much as he refuses to hand wave them away.
      Aslan argues that FDM is a geocentric problem, unfairly associated with Islam. The author rebuts, not by claiming Islam is the cause, but by arguing the problem is prominent in Islam countries. That is, 70% of all FDM countries happen to be Muslim. Author states it’d be intellectually disingenuous to disregard that. FDM might not be due to Islamic tradition, but it may be that Islamic traditions prevent the disposing of the practice.
      So, in essence Aslan is himself coloring his religion with a broad stroke – difference being he’s being more positive about it.

      Like

  29. Nice work. Regardless of the minutiae of the FGM maths, the issue is that Reza sets himself up as knowing a lot about Islam then deliberately lies and misrepresents the truth. Even worse are the media organisations that collude and allow this to happen.
    FGM is not just an Islamic problem but to somehow claim it is not an Islamic problem at all is just plain wrong.
    There are hadith that can be quoted in support of FGM and the four main schools of sunni Islamic jurisprudence describe it as: ‘optional and preferred’ (Maliki); ‘preferred’ (Hanifi); ‘strongly encouraged to obligatory’ (Hanbali); ‘obligatory’ (Shafi’i).
    Yes the progressives want it outlawed (it’s been prohibited since 1997 in Egypt and illegal since 2008), but the fundamentalists don’t like that (The Muslim brotherhood wanted to decriminalize it when they were in power briefly). And of course it still happens anyway, hence over 90% of married Egyptian women between 15 and 49 have suffered it (UNICEF) and only one prosecution has happened. The 13 year old girl died as a result of the procedure, but the prosecution failed (Judge acquitted defendants, despite the evidence, giving no explanation).

    But the facts never worry our Reza do they. He also recently claimed that the very first thing Muhammad did was outlaw slavery. This despite the fact that Muhammad kept slaves, traded slaves, and sanctioned the enslavement of people. Reza should be kept from any mainstream media source until he promises to tell only the truth.

    I suppose his obviously false claims might be regarded as blasphemy by many Muslims. Maybe they’ll have a quiet word with him and we won’t need to worry about it anymore.

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  30. Saw this in the comments and was staggered.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country#South.2C_Southeast_and_Central_Asia

    Reza comes over as reasonable the very first time you hear him and then you read the open letter and the comments and you back and listen again and your rebutles (sic) seem reasonable as well.

    I will look for more pieces on this site to be amused and horrified as I was by the above link .

    Thanks

    W

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  31. WELL SAID, JORDAN.

    I want to start off by saying this to everyone who wrote “you missed Reza’s point” or “Reza is just trying to say not all Muslims are the same” or some such nonsense…….

    no.

    YOU missed the point OF THIS OPEN LETTER. The point of this letter is to expose that WHEN REZA SPEAKS, THE WORDS THAT COME OUT OF HIS MOUTH ARE NOT TRUE. This could be because of stupidity, this could be because of laziness, this could be intentional deception, who can be sure? What we CAN be sure of, is that Reza is a believer, and it’s really REALLY starting to show. There is a behavioral phenomena that I have noticed in many believers when they try to debate logically about important topics, particularly topics about things that oppose their religion. In terms of importance, they put their faith in God HIGHER than scientific discovery, mental adaptation/growth, or facts (particularly those facts that damage the credibility of their God/Holy Book/Belief system). They think, and therefore act, from this state of mind, and in this state of mind all they have to do is “keep the faith.” They don’t have to be sensible, they don’t have to be honest, they are allowed to be hypocritical, all because doubt is the enemy of faith, and faith is their inner structure, so that means………doubt’s got to GO.

    Sadly as this continues, critical reasoning skills erode, day after day, year after year, being replaced by the practice of reassuring themselves that they are doing the will of God leaving them absolutely crippled when it comes to debating…….only…….they don’t care. They never feel as though they lose any debate because God is the answer and couldn’t possibly be wrong. Without critical reasoning skills, information comes in GOD IS REAL is the first reaction, THEN they examine the information to pick through it and make sure it fits with their first and more important premise…….god is real……this is not debating……this is something else entirely.

    I hear the erosion of reasoning skill in Reza’s arguments, he’s weaker, lazier, and more hypocritical now than any other time in his career, and he doesn’t care, because it’s not important to be strong, it’s not important to work hard, it’s not important to have character, what’s important is GOD’S WILL…….

    -C

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  32. razor asshat and religious apologists are actually what i refer to as “bad human beings” because they are more interested in winning a popularity contest than stopping the murder and torture of children. Of course muslims respect lies, their entire belief system is based on a book of lies. if they start scrutinizing lies then they have to scrutinize their religion which is sure to send them to hell. in this context RA fans are
    Correct, this is not a muslim problem exclusively but THE problem with religion.

    Like

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